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Discussion about Fiora, the Problematic Duelist + Wild Idea

CLK3 July 17, 2015 User blog:CLK3

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Fiora's current state

Issues with Fiora

7/17/15 and no news about the possible rework... I don't know when it might come but I hope it will. Some discussion/concepts have been shown back in April 2014 (surrenderat20.net) and I think earlier... Some of you may know/remember. A bunch of fanbase concepts for Fiora reworks has been done.

Nevertheless, a rework for Fiora is needed, as for many more champions. Her whole current kit should be re-thought for the following issues:

  • Thematic character vs the character in game: "Duelist", "fencer", honor, talent. The state of her current kit does not really cross with the Grand Duelist character. (Mainly her ult and poor Passives)
  • Role: Q -> Q -> Ult and you're done. That is the current state. Full AD assassin, since she simply cannot handle other good 1v1 champions (Jax/Irelia/Shyvana?) later on. We abuse her early game and snowball off of that. All or nothing. I don't know about you but gameplay-wise it is pretty "broken" (unforgiving?) way to play the game (don't make me to explain this).
  • Kit (Passive): Recently released champions (Tahm Kench as the latest) have gotten quite a complicated Passives, aiming towards further versatility for their kits (Tahm/Bard/Azir/Gnar). Just watching Fiora's current Passive... Uhh... Makes it feel flat out weak. It encourages you to trade before First Blood and gives you sustain, so that the sustain would not be her weakness before Hydra. Does it offer anything else?
  • Kit (Q): Engage. In my opinion her Q is relatively fine. ADC-mains in the other hand may not like this... Nevertheless she needs a way to reach her primary targets (which will ALWAYS be enemy squishies as #1 option).
  • Kit (W): Trading tool. (Active) Every 10 down to 3.6 seconds you counter enemy's auto. This, among her Ult, is the only thing providing her safety she needs... It's not awful ability and certainly goes into her character. Could be tweaked when it comes to AP-scaling and/or add an Armor debuff for further depth... (Passive) Free stats? Free item for an ADC is never bad but this is one reason why her early game is so strong. I am not suggesting to keeping this. Her kit should not need the W's Passive portion. Neither does her character. She needs something totally different for her kit.
  • Kit (E): Steroid. This is why full AD builds work on her perhaps even better than DPS ones. The attack speed -buff is just WAY too strong. What is she? A rage-filled berserker? This ability is there just to enhance your offensive capabilities and make sure you would auto-attack. But this is one of the reasons why it is somewhat hard to define Fiora as an Assassin from a melee ADC. The bonus is SO huge. I personally would allow attack speed on her kit, in more refined amount/form, and I am not huge fan of resetting abilities. The movement speed, as Fiora's only "reliable" disengage, is fine though.
  • Kit (R): I honestly don't know what was thought in the process of brainstorming Fiora's ultimate ability... But THIS one is pretty awful (no matter how cool it is). Pure. Assassination. Little to no counterplay. (Say what you say, but) I have yet to see anyone completing Hourglass once they reach level 6. This ability will not win a teamfight late game. It will only delete poor Supports and ADCs (+ maybe Mages) and won't even scratch Tanks/Bruisers. Not fair. There goes the "talent" and the "honor" her character should be bringing. The Ultimate basically is the reason for Fiora's snowballing kit: invulnerability + free damage.

If needed, I'm ready to explain statements above.

TL:DR

Overall, she is not the Grand Duelist in-game. Role-wise she is played as an Assassin over melee ADC. Her kit not only makes her opponents suffer from their mistakes but also the whole enemy team. Weak Passive(s), OP Ult.

Fiora's future

First of all, this is what I want from her:

Pros:

+ strong-ish 1v1
+ mobile, both engage/disengage -wise
+ steady DPS
+ defensive mechanic
+ high skill-ceiling

Cons:

- no CC
- countered with CC/lockdown
- somewhat squishy
- high skill-floor?

For me, this leads into following:

  • Passive changed, Q adjusted, W changed (active moved/adjusted), E reworked, R changed
  • No blinds/disarms (thematic issues)

Rework

Passive
ChampionSquare

Fiora's basic attacks and Abilities deal bonus (2-3% target's max HP) as bonus physical damage to enemy Champions


Better option for late game, 1v1 and for DPS in my opinion. Fiora would 'probably' build sustain anyways.
Lunge/Thrust
RANGE: 600/450
Lunge

First Active:Lunge - pretty much the same

Second Active:Thrust - (pretty much the same) cast range of 450, damage tweaks?


I want fail-safe engaging tool, 2 casts for better reach, 2nd cast's dmg could be 50% or so, and NOT skillshot. Cooldown 16-8s?
Disengage/Thrust
Riposte

First Active:Disengage

Second Active:Thrust - Lunge's 2nd cast


Keeping her Riposte here would be nice but... I somewhat like this more. For fail-safe disengage during laning-phase. This Ability's 2nd cast would be unlocked by leveling up Ult. Cooldown 12-8s?
Burst of Speed
RANGE: N/A
Burst of Speed

Active: For the next 3 seconds, Fiora's basic attacks and abilities increase her attack speed [8%/11%/14%/17%/20%] and movement speed [8%/9%/10%/11%/12%], stacking up to 3 times (stacks decay one at the time, stack duration 2-3s)


Slightly changed to not be such a bursty Active. Steadier DPS for longer duration leaving room for Attack Speed items. I don't think cooldown-reset is needed and I don't know about the auto attack-reset... Cooldown +10s?
Duelist
RANGE: N/A
Duelist

Passive: Duelist Unlocks 2nd cast for W

Second Active: For the next X/Y/Z seconds, Fiora's basic attacks and abilities apply [Mark] on each enemy Champion hit. [Marks] last for (1.5 - 2) seconds. Next basic attacks from [Marked] enemies are parried and consume the [Mark] (on-target cooldown: ~3s)


Not sure at all, some form of "Riposte-stance" would fit Fiora better in my opinion but is it too late to get defensive mechanic at level 6? Could this parry single-target spells as well? I don't know but bonus Armor Penetration for the duration could be an option.

Result

What Fiora would become with this rework? Caster. DPS ADC..? Perhaps. And I know that the rework above looks wild, so here are Jax Jax's , Master Yi Master Yi's and Riven Riven's kits.

However, I think she needs something more than just "few" tweaks... A lot of mobile-enhancing abilities would let her "dance" in teamfights, assuming she would not get focused down. Every basic Ability having 2nd casts is dramatic change, and I have to refine this (maybe going to do actual Champion page). Not good with numbers so imagine fair cooldowns and damage ratios. And I don't know how laning with suggested kit would be like. I don't know her Items with this, nor her cooldowns, mana-costs etc. This experiment is more towards finding her role in teamfights...

She would have:

  • 2 gap-closers
  • Disengage into gap-closer (at level 6)
  • Steroid + movement speed
  • Some protection from basic attacks against marked champions

Now I don't want to make her into another Irelia/Jax. I don't want her to be built into Bruiser/Off-Tank. Not sure if this kit would encourage people to do it or not, but Jayce for example is not built into Bruiser for some reason... With kit I represented above, Fiora would need few defensive items. She would require strong-ish AD scalings in order to make good usage out of carry-focused items but yet she shouldn't be able to nuke enemies with only few dashes...

What is (currently) Fiora's biggest problem? What she should keep in her kit? What would you want from her? Would you play the kit I created above (whether it was Fiora or someone else)? What would you build? What kind of problems you would run into? Where am I going wrong?

Would she need some synergy with critical strikes (to bait people into building DPS items)?

And for ADC-mains - can you kite that?


CLK3 (talk) 08:05, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

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