# Myth on Reduction/Penetration Flip

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Hiya reader!

While having a fun discussion with the always fun and lovely Interceptor402 (who can always be found hanging around the awesome and divined Kayle page because Kayle is always super awesome!), a thought occurred to crunch the numbers oh how effective the reduction/penetration flip.

So this here is purpose of this blog, * "How much did the reduction/penetration flip increased your champion's damage?" *

## Overview

First, I will only reference armor throughout this entire blog, but all the finding here holds true for magic resist.

Second, we need a very quick overview on this order so people in the dark can understand what I'm talking about.

In Season 3, the order of reduction and penetration is:

- Flat magic reduction
- Percentage magic reduction
- Percentage magic penetration
- Flat magic penetration

In the seasons prior to season 3, the order used to be:

- Percentage magic reduction
- Flat magic reduction
- Flat magic penetration
- Percentage magic penetration

## Analyzing

Let's assume you only have the mastery to grant you 8% armor pen, and 50 armor pen through masteries, runes, and items.

Target's Armor | Season 2 (Armor Left) | Season 3 (Armor Left) | Damage Increased |
---|---|---|---|

60 | 9.2 | 5.2 | 3.38% |

75 | 23 | 19 | 2.73% |

100 | 46 | 42 | 1.93% |

125 | 69 | 65 | 1.43% |

150 | 92 | 88 | 1.11% |

175 | 115 | 111 | 0.33% |

Now, let's repeat this process again but this time, let's assume you have both

and the mastery, granting a total of 40% armor pen, while still having 50 armor pen.Target's Armor | Season 2 (Armor Left) | Season 3 (Armor Left) | Damage Increased |
---|---|---|---|

60 | 6 | 0 (-14) | 5.66% (21.94%) |

75 | 15 | 0 (-5) | 2.73% (18.31%) |

100 | 30 | 10 | 13.99% |

125 | 45 | 25 | 11.03% |

150 | 60 | 40 | 8.93% |

175 | 75 | 5 | 7.37% |

This one is just an average that most champion has. This only has around 12 armor pen from runes, 5 armor pen & 8% armor pen from mastery, and . Total: 27 armor pen, and 8% armor pen.

Target's Armor | Season 2 (Armor Left) | Season 3 (Armor Left) | Damage Increased |
---|---|---|---|

60 | 30.36 | 28.2 | 1.29% |

75 | 44.16 | 42 | 1.06% |

100 | 67.16 | 65 | 0.78% |

125 | 90.16 | 88 | 0.60% |

150 | 113.16 | 111 | 0.48% |

175 | 136.16 | 134 | 0.39% |

This one is just an average for a champion with mastery, and . Total: 27 armor pen, and 40% armor pen.

. This only has around 12 armor pen from runes, 5 armor pen & 8% armor pen fromTarget's Armor | Season 2 (Armor Left) | Season 3 (Armor Left) | Damage Increased |
---|---|---|---|

60 | 19.8 | 9 | 8.27% |

75 | 28.8 | 18 | 7.11% |

100 | 43.8 | 33 | 5.65% |

125 | 58.8 | 48 | 4.60% |

150 | 73.8 | 63 | 3.81% |

175 | 88.8 | 78 | 3.21% |

Now what can we get out from these data. By the data, we actually get a very very simple equation we can use to discover the difference in armor. This equation holds true for all different possible values (I have tested it countless times), and the equation is:

- Difference in Armor = (Value of % Pen) × (Value of flat Pen / 100)

See how simple math is :)

By studying the equation, you can quickly learn something. You only start seeing a noticeable difference when you stack % armor penetration. And this is where the truth lies.

There is only three sources to grab % armor penetration

- - 35% armor pen
- Weapon Expertise (Deprecated template: use Mi1 to Mi6.) - 8% armor pen
- Darius' Apprehend - 5-25% armor pen

For % magic penetration

- - 35% magic pen
- Arcane Knowledge (Deprecated template: use Mi1 to Mi6.) - 8% magic pen
- Xerath's Locus of Power - 16-40% magic pen

## Conclusion

The Reduction/Pen flip is only a noticeable difference if you grab Darius. If your champions falls under one of these two options, then you see an average increase of 3-10% (target has 60-175 armor) due to the flip.

or you'reWith that, it is a rather good change, but...If you do not have Darius, then at best, you see an increase of 1.5%. Beyond that, everything else is really unnoticeable.

or you're not**Some other information**

*You didn't even mention about reduction?*

- Reduction got nerf due to the flip (% now comes after flat), and the order of reductions to penetration did not change, so the two does not affect effect each other, therefore there is no change.
- Second, it's hard to find overlap as the only possible way to get flat armor reduction and % armor reduction is through champions abilities. In either case, to calculate the lost, use the same equation I provided.

*Who were the champion actually benefited from the flip?*

- Not including any outside factors besides the reduction/pen flip, the champions are Darius, Olaf, and Xerath because they are the only champions that have penetration within their kit. All other champions have reduction and at best, they have a 0% increase.
- In addition, basically champions that would desire
- Basically anything that provides % penetration benefited the most out from this change, and then those with flat penetration gains a little. Anything with reduction (at worst) has been nerfed, but due to the small amount of sources where flat armor reduction appear, it's rarely a nerf.

or .

*Did *
become overpowered because of this flip?

- No. Black Clever would had been overpowered as well in season 2 if it was released with the 30% armor reduction and 15 flat armor pen. The order of which these appears are the same, and has a very tiny difference regardless of the order.

## Final Thoughts

No not take this information wrongly. This flip has been a buff overall, but the buff is only noticeable is if your champion stacked resistance penetration (like grabbing

or ) and grab or . Outside of that, the buff is very marginal. It's a buff, but a tiny one.I hope this blog has been really helpful for you and taught you something completely new.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask and I'll answer. Thank you for your time.