I wouldn't say that, helps you escape ganks and if they facecheck a bush you can lock them in there.

1 day ago by YoshinatorZ

Get it at lvl 4. Its a must! Early ganks are stopped and if they try to push on you, you can then proceed to turn a possible death into an escape or even free kill. Gravity field is amazing in lane

23 hours ago by Armegdon

Taking 1 point in W is mainly for gank insurance against junglers and to prevent champs from turret diving you effectively. However, I agree it is hard to use aggressively in lane because of the set-up time and the fact that they will probably make it out of the field before the stun goes off.

That being said, it is an invaluable tool in teamfights which can easily happen before you've finished maxing E and Q. Most of the time I land the stun on 1 - 2 enemies and even if I don't the sheer zoning capability of W forces the enemy team to reposition themselves (mitigating some of their DPS). Taking 1 point in it is definitely worth it lane just for the gank insurance alone, but having it by level 8 at the latest is absolutely necessary imo.

22 hours ago by Rust x Rust

I allways do E, W, E, Q, E, R -> R>E>Q>W

Every slow is important. It's like to say Kog'Maws slow is useless on lane D:

10 hours ago by Xyonon

I start with Q for one reason. Leashing. It gives the leash and costs lest mana. That and early encounters just work best with its solid damage and the shield return. Plus at lvl 1 its base damage is higher. But after that I take E at lvl 2, 3 W at 4, and E at 5 again maxing it first

2 hours ago by Armegdon

history

120, 100, 80 would be nice. 120 is very long. but with some CDR its reduced dramaticly. so get the W augment. However the initial and DoT is insane <3

5 days ago by Xyonon

A blurb out of my wall-of-text in an earlier post:

The 2min CD on Vik's ult is well deserved; it has extremely high base damage and scaling, and has a (brief) AoE silence to prevent them from immidiately escaping, and, oh yeah, WORKS AFTER YOU DIE. Considering these strengths the long cd makes sense in my opinion - think of it like a Kennen ult with more damage and less utility (Kennen's ult is also on a 2min cd at all levels btw).

After reconsidering it a bit, I suppose maybe it could go down to 90 or 100 at max rank. But the damage output is so high on it and its an AoE, so I think it's fair the way it is.

5 days ago by Rust x Rust

All vik really needs is auto range increase and a movement speed increase and he be good. ap and cd can easily be upgraded through items.

4 days ago by A Wikia contributor

His ult CD is fine. It does ridiculous damage and you usually end up killing or or forcing your lane to go back every time its off cooldown.

1 day ago by A Wikia contributor

Viktor "needs" something? No, he's pretty ok atm.

10 hours ago by Xyonon

Only one I am looking for a change on is Augment: Power. The other two I find good as is. But it dosen't mean that they couldn't do something interesting with the others :D

6 days ago by Armegdon

Sad really D: I never see him. And when I do its a free week and they suck. I would teach them, but people will rage and say crap like "I cant hit anything!" and never try again. Same with Orianna!

6 days ago by Armegdon

Mr. handy is kind of a troll

10 days ago by TheMotoad

^Lol "Mr. Handy". Sounds wrong...

8 days ago by Rust x Rust

I refer to it at as "Lazor Palm"

7 days ago by Armegdon

Active passive is not what riot wants. Also, its just a passive, veigars passive, or zileans passive, those are useless late game.

11 days ago by A Wikia contributor

(to lazy to lock in) it s an active item, not an active passive, his passive is that he gains 3 ap per lvl in exchange for an itemslot (and that the item can be upgraded)

11 days ago by A Wikia contributor

I do like your idea. The diminishing effect is definitely too potent though as no one in their right mind would pay 1000g for 10% ms buff, 78 health and 2 hp/5, but the suggestion itself is pretty interesting. I'm glad to hear more unique ideas on improving Viktor!!

• • WARNING WALL-OF-TEXT INCOMING**

However, you have targeted Viktor's one true "weakness" - the passive. I know people on this page say that Viktor is underrated, but I would even take it a step further and say that, excluding his passive, Viktor is BORDERLINE OP. His abilities make him strong on so many levels for a mage: High burst, godlike midgame, godlike poke, incredible utility and even a fairly decent lategame. He wins against a LOT of normally crappy mage matchups like Morgana and Leblanc (but he does have some counters). Sure he can have mana problems and CD issues early game, but both of them can be fixed by blue buff. Hell his Q even gives him so pseudo-tankiness and "sustain" in lane (a little artificial but should not be neglected).

So why oh why do we not see him in tourneys (for the record I have started seeing him in soloQ "featured games" lately so he is being picked up in high-elo). Well, as practically everybody on this page has said it boils down to his passive. Now in actuality, for a "burst" mage (which is how he probably is most played), Augment: Death is actually really good - it gives him 99AP lategame (I believe the 3rd highest AP item in the game) AND gives him bonus damage (+scaling) on his best non-ult ability all for a measly 1000g.

However, even this amazing deal cannot counteract its true downsides. One disadvantage is punishment for versatility. If people are complaining that Augment: Death gives Viktor a poor lategame then imagine the fate of those who build Augment: Gravity and Augment: Power. Regardless of my highly critical opinion on Augment: Power, one cannot deny that 220 health and 6 hp/5 is utterly useless lategame especially when the AD carry well melt off way more damage than that. Even the movespeed buff is rendered useless when you have to get within Ashe's AA range to gain the benefit from it. Augment: Gravity is much less punitive, however, usually mana and mana regen are non-issues for Viktor's lategame. Though the CDR and increased W range is useful all-game, it still leaves you with useless stats.

So why don't competitive players just build Augment: Death all the time and win? Well the biggest problem still remains, it takes up a goddamn item slot. In competitive play, builds are never static: people build to counter whatever is the biggest threat or problem. This means building a negatron cloak or a chain vest really early if necessary; not just going for mad deeps. But Viktor's fatass hex core severely dampens the amount of flexibility he has: boots, 2 dorans, the hex core and wards take up nearly ALL of Viktor's item slots leaving him one measly slot to adapt to the game. Why stress out with this flaw when champs like Morg and Cassiopeia can offer just as much without the hassle?

Despite his passive, Viktor is one of my fave champs in the game. His design and gameplay are extremely unique, he has a high skill cap and he FRIGGIN shuffles. If you are on the fence about picking up this champ, please DO IT - he is amazing and you won't regret it.

TL;DR - Everyone (including myself) bitches about Viktor's passive and it really does hold him back from being truly great. Still, even Riot if does absolutely nothing to change him, at the end of the day I'd still play him as my main mid. He is not blatently UP like Eve or Heim, and if you give him a chance HE WILL DECIMATE TEAMS. Holy crap this is long!

13 days ago by Rust x Rust

history

Wow, I was not expecting a fellow wall of texter replying to my post. Awesome. I am glad to have some good feedback on what others think and in general a well thought out opinion with reasons i might add. Although I honestly do like the idea of what Zilla said a few posts up about maybe giving each of the hex cores an upgrade for maybe increased stats on the hex core and a item active? I think that would be pretty cool for the hex core. Then you cannot complain as much due to the fact of hey wach core has an active now.

As for possible ideas of hex core upgraded stats? I have no idea what I would pick due the fact that its just too hard to balance these sorts of stats and stuff. I am terrible with figuring out balanced stats so yeah, anyways moveing onto possible item actives for the three hex cores. Maybe make each upgrade like 1500-2000 or something like that and that will earn you your stats increase on the item and also your sexy sexy active.

Augment Power Upgrade: An active that increases move speed by a large amount and then decreases over the next 5 seconds. With regards to cooldown, maybe make it something like a 90 second cooldown or maybe a 60 second.

Augment Gravity Upgrade: An active that slows the move speed of an opposing champion by a large amount and then decreases over time, or maybe that decreases move speed and attack speed by a moderate amount? I think doing the attack speed debuff would be a bit much normally all you need anyway is a move speed debuff. For the cooldown of this one probably a similar cooldown to that of the one given in the idea for power's upgrade probably a 60-90 cooldown.

Augment Death Upgrade: Not too sure as to what actives you could put on this, you could put a magic damage active with a similar cooldown to that of Hextech Gunblades, but without the slow or anything. Just the damage and have it scale with your ap (its pretty much a part of you) admittedly low scaling as its an active and supplementary. As I said before no idea on actual damage or anything I'm terrible at balancing stuff. Second idea for a death upgrade would probably be simple with something like a inflict greivous wounds active with like a 30 second cooldown with the total range being similar to that of morellos active range for the same thing. Final idea would require some working out to see if it could work right. How about you place a miniature version of your staff, that acts as a ward for anywhere between 2-3 minutes? Maybe 3 minutes. Yeah. Let's go with that. Sounds kinda meh at the moment but the actual active is far more interesting, if you select the item again after placing it then you can cast death ray from the staffs location. Admittedly sounds a bit strange and maybe useless, but when you think about it its not too bad. The range on the ray would be all of the actual length of the skillshot and would be visible to those within brush etc, visible when the beam is leaving brush. The range on the vision would also be the exact length of the skillshot itself. Not too sure if the beam should do exactly the same damage as viktor's and get the 30%, just the same as viktors or do 75% of what viktors does. I think it should probably be either the second or third mentioned. Why? The first upgrade with the DoT is for VIKTORS death ray not for a second smaller staff he has thrown down. Clarification. Both the death ray active and the actual death ray itself would would have similar cooldowns. The death ray that viktor fires remains the same, the one the staff fires has a seperate timer that is stuck at a flat level probably 12 seconds or something. Another unique feature you could add to it, is that the death ray fired uses remaining power in the staff because it only lasts 3 minutes giving the impression that its battery had run out so to speak. Maybe each use uses up like 10 seconds of remaining ward time. Meaning if used off cooldown every time perfectly, then it has 9 max uses (impossible to time all of them perfectly and still hit shit) but anyway would probably come down to something like 6 possible uses for when they are in range etc.

Anyway thats my other wall of text done, again opinions and replies are always welcomed, once again thank you for your well written reply 'Rust x Rust'.

12 days ago by Zoltan Fargo

uhm i dare to join this conversation too

first of all i want to thank you zoltan and rust for having a conversation like this while the majority of comments on these champions arent anything meaningfull

uhm next thing would be about the latest post by zoltan

certainly an interesting idea but think about it again:

each champion has an innate ability which works passively and 4 skills including one ultimate

viktors innate is his hextec core which grants him stats in exchange for an item slot as well as beeing upgradable to improve one of his abilities

this is something we all know, but the thing is, if his hextec core upgrade would benefit him an active ability it would mean he would gain an additional skill

sure there are acitvatable items, but these items are for everyone to buy who wants them, so everyone can have these active abilities

an upgraded hextec core active ability however would be viktor-exclusive, resulting in an additional skill

i especially liked that idea of the staff beeing placed as some kind of ward, able to fire a mini death ray

however if that would happen it would mean viktor had an innate, 4 abilities, an additional exclusive ability and also a ward

that sounds too much

i myself am playing viktor

and i have great fun with him because just as the both of you said, he is one of a kind

on the other hand he isnt that simple and needs a little "think before you act" what makes him even more fun

but mr. rusty said that he is doing quite well when he is playing viktor

and i myself can say the same about me as well, with my recent stats beeing 18/7/18 (i think these are quite good stats)

viktor, if played correctly, is quite strong

personally i prefer augment: power, because of the little more utility it gives

but everyone may chose whatever they like

however if his hextec core would be upgraded as much as you suggested it, imagine how strong he would become

i think he would be OP

but i understand what you mean anyway and your ideas are really interesing

its just, i think he is quite balanced, beeing able to compete with every other caster while having one individual item slot less

that however is just my personal opinion and i would like to read what you think about it

10 days ago by FullSteamSpacemachine

I really like this idea, the hex core does need some buffs but they must be minor, if they are too strong he will be OP if they are too weak they might as well forget it so It will probably not happen anytime soon.

But the First thing I notice is that he is like many mages cd item and mana based this is sometimes a problem for viktor as he doesn't ever get as strong as other ap carries with 1 ability due to the core.

My solution maybe you could give, as stated before, an active to the core. But then its not fair to allow a champ to be able to spend some gold and then become stronger by adding anotherr ability.

So I got to thinking maybe they could be able to buy a third upgrade to thier agument that will give the item an active, but instead of it being seperate this active will modify the ability its linked to.

For example the Gravity agument Tier 3 will allow the person to cause the gravity to do damage to anyone stunned by it on next use, death ray can cause small aoe doing half damage and maybe the yellow can allow you instead of the shield gain half of the shield as health.

This would not give him seperate abilites but would allow him to become slightly more viable late game by giving him the ability to use more of his ap with his abilities as he is limited on the ammount of ap he can buy he needs to use more to be more viable.

Make these aguments about say 2000g to upgrade your tier 2 agument and get this extra effect. It will make him more viable without making him too OP, but if this happens careful ajustment of the actives will have to be done so it doesn't make him to strong.

Please give me your feed back on this one.

10 days ago by A Wikia contributor

i see

instead of an active ability you say the augmented ability itself could be improved. well the augments we currently have does exactly that. but i understand what you mean. i think if his gravitation field would deal damage it would be too strong since he has quite a burst. his power transfer stealing half of the damage done and giving it to viktor, not so sure about that but definitly not a bad idea. im not sure if i understood your intention for the deathray, it sounds as if youre saying it should kinda split or something? i imagine it like three lines in a cone, similar to graves buckshot. that would be interesting

but i have to say this. viktors biggest weakness is not his hextec core, but the 2 minute cd on his ulti. in most cases he fights with Q and E. the ulti itself is pretty strong and if used right it can turn the whole teamfight. i use CDR masteries and got a CD of 108 seconds instead of 120 wich makes his ulti much more reliable. his q has a short CD and his E's not that long either so he will be spamming those in the teamfight. his AOE slow/stun is quite the reliable ability and can serve as a total gamebreaker by rendering the enemy team unable to do anything and his ulti on top of that, if cast immediatly, will prevent the enemy from flashing out due to the silence,even if its only a short silence.

usually my ap with viktor (i use augment: power instead of augment: death) is around 590. by far not as much as other casters will get. but i have more than 3000hp due to crystal scepter and rod of ages. with augment power and crystal scepter, his q slows the enemy while making you faster. thats quite nasty.

but even though i dont get as much AP as other casters. i have never been at a disadvantage. my poke is efective, my burst is high, and with sorcerer shoes and abyssal scepter combined, i couldnt care less about the enemies magic resistance.

his hextec core might not grant him as much benefit as an individual item you would chose but on the other hand, since you have his hextec core, your item build is by far cheaper and you can unfold your full power pretty early.

i dont think he has any disadvantges compared to other casters, he has a unique playstyle and is pretty strong while beeing quite sturdy as well

9 days ago by FullSteamSpacemachine

^I agree quite a bit with your post SpaceMachine. However, the 2min CD on Vik's ult is well deserved; it has extremely high base damage and scaling, and has a (brief) AoE silence to prevent them from immidiately escaping, and, oh yeah, WORKS AFTER YOU DIE. Considering these strengths the long cd makes sense in my opinion - think of it like a Kennen ult with more damage and less utility (Kennen's ult is also on a 2min cd btw).

I do agree that Viktor is more or less fine as is, though. I honestly think that allowing the hex core to unlock another ability at level 18 would remedy a lot of the supposed "lategame problems" that Viktor has, but he's pretty strong already. It's just that there are other casters right now that can perform as well or better (Cassiopeia, Morgana, etc) but that also do not have to deal with the hex core limiting their inventory space; this is probably the reason for his lack of popularity (that and he's a 6300 champ).

Still, despite the drawbacks, Viktor es numero uno AP caster in my eyes!!

9 days ago by Rust x Rust

history

I think its time for my turn at the wall of text.

I Absolutly love Viktor's passive and in no way do i find it weak but it is open for changes or improvements. It gives a nice AP boost per level and while it may not be the biggest AP boost ever, we all know it's all about the Augments. I believe we are all in agreement that Augment: Power is rather weak right now and is in need of a buff/new mechanic. Augment: Gravity is rather situational but is still a great augment notheless. I always run Augment: Death as I hardly miss with Death Ray and it does help my middle and late game. Anyway i think its best to actually review each Augment as even Augment: Power is usefull but situational. An active added to the Augments however would derail the point of a passive. But dosen't mean that they can't be improved

Augment: Death

Well, lets start at arguably the best Augment. This one gives a really strong AP buff, that includes the passive AP per level, the aditional AP, plus the 30% increase on Death Ray as DoT. This Augment is best for those who can land Death Ray consitantly in a small skirmish or team fights. Augment: Death is best for the Viktor that again, not only lands his E, but is the team's biggest source of damage or the one that needs to be. The only downside is that it dosen't add anything but raw damage to Viktor's kit meaning that it can sometime be outclassed, but that is based upon your opposition.

Augment: Gravity

This one give Viktor some amazing utility. As we all know it has the extended range on Gravity Field. Personally, when I build Augment: Death or have yet to get my Augment I will find situations where my laning opponent is just barely out of range of Gravity Field. Land it and its almost a certatin kill. Augment: Gravity gives Viktor the necassary range to hit his Field from very good distances away, plus the mana regen and CDR really helps him keep it up more often in team fights, which can result in fewer deaths and more kills as it is his only real escape method. It gives the most utility to Viktor and is better when your team has enough damage and could benift from the AoE stun/slow. A well placed Field alone has a great influence on a team fight and can even turn an entire battle to your favor. Augment: Gravity is for the Viktor that is certain that, once his stun is landed, death is certain through other means.

Augment: Power

Well, we all have our opinions on this one....Considered the worst Augment, but...how bad is it? Is it really that bad? While it may not be as good as the other Augments, it still has a place in a Viktor kit. Survivalbility. Viktor may find himself, early on, being the focused champion, or that they need an additional escape method. The additional health and regen is nice, but the speed bonus is a great means for getting away, and into position. Viktor could be needing to prepare a gank or get a better placement on his Gravity Field, and while for the W placement, Augment: Gravity is best, it sometimes could benifit from an entirely different location where Viktor is. Being in the right position on any mage can really turn the tide of a battle. Viktor could easier land his E, W, even his ult simply because he was in position faster or better. As an escape method, laying down your W and hitting with Power Transfer gives you a considerable speed buff, stun, and shield. Almost a certain escape. It needs a buff true. But it is still a viable addition.

While i enjoy looking at different ideas for his passive, or specifiaclly Augment: Power, I do doubt any immidiate changes and I posted this to give details that all Augments have their use!

6 days ago by Armegdon

So mister armegdon

i gotta say that was a nice and informative review

you are right with the facts about the augment, although personally i like augment power a lot, opinions differ

even though i preffer augment power, i cant argue with what you said about it

it gives surviability, but is a little worse than the other two augments when you get into late game. The simple fact that crystal scpeter alongside augment power allows you to slow enemies while you yourself get faster is a pretty cool fact. But you cant take item builds into consideration when talk about "is this skill itself good or not".

So yeah, even though the effect aint bad, Augment: Power is the overall least effective choice!

but in my opinion, they only changes viktor needs are bug fixes. I think his balance is fine as it is. He has his good and bad points, he finds himself at advanteges and disadventages, he can be OP and UP. its all a matter of how well you handle him. Viktor himself is pretty balanced in my opinion

4 days ago by FullSteamSpacemachine

I like cookies.

3 days ago by A Wikia contributor

I'm probably just regurgitating what was posted earlier, but like other, I think his core should have additional upgrades, possibly two different upgrades per augement.

Viktor, as we have realized, strikes a fine balance between burst, poke, and utility, which is further reflected in his different augements (Death, Power, and Gravity). Each Augement should thus push Viktor in a certain direction:

Death A - Onslaught: All of Viktor's abilities shread the target's Magic Resistance

Death B - Entropy: Any target hit by Viktor's ability is marked with Entropy, each ability giving one stack, stacking up to 4 times. 5 seconds after the inital mark, the target is hit with a certain amount magic damage per stack.

Power A - Syphon: Viktor gains bonus spellvamp

Power B - Conservation: Viktor absorbs a % Power Transfer's Shield is hit with and returns it on his next cast of Power Transfer.

Gravity A - Flux: All of Viktor's spells last x more seconds

Gravity B - Density: Viktor reduces the Movement Speed of all enemy champions near him.

Discuss. :D

3 days ago by A Wikia contributor

^Holy crap, that's a wonderful idea! I'm not necessarily the actual upgrades should be like that (although the power ones are particularly good) but the idea of split upgrades on each augment would be a really fun mechanic. Although, Riot already seems to have a difficult time balancing 3 upgrades - 6 upgrades might be too much for them to handle <.<

Still this is why the Viktor page is one of my favorites on this wiki to visit, you guys come up such excellent ideas. Most of the discussions here have been relatively civil and your guys' arguments (though I may disagree with some of them) are often cogent and well-reasoned. Keep it up! :)

2 days ago by Rust x Rust

Well mr. rusty is right

this is probably one of the most reasonable and exciting discussions in this whole wiki.

the ideas above are great, though as mr. rusty said, riot may have hard time balancing something like that. but the hex-core gives a great variety of possibilities.

im not sure if riot didnt think of other ideas or if they just find them unfitting or too hard to correctly implement in the game.

but as the game improves, and since there will be plenty of more champions, i think there will come a time when they will rethink the power-ups of viktor. in the end the innate skill is named, evolving technology, so the idea itself might actually really evolve. if they ever come across this discussion, they at least will have a great set of interesting and exciting ideas. the numbers are up to them, but why not get help from the players themselves. sure there are some that say stuff like "tryndameres ulti is OP, reduce it to 3 seconds" and stuff. but there als people like you, with a great understanding of the game, while still not overestimating nor underestimating everything in the game. this is what the community needs: a logical and understanding point of view with the desire to improve. and i see plenty of that here.

the idea of chosing one out of two augment specalisations for one skill gives the strategy-meaning a whole new way of thinking. to make the right decision out of such a variety of possibilities while divide the good from the great players.

i gotta thank all of you for this talk which i enjoyed a lot so far. lets see what ideas have yet to pop up

2 days ago by FullSteamSpacemachine

We must prolong this till it consumes the entire page!

22 hours ago by Armegdon

an additional upgrade at 18 would be weird as most people would have had their endgame at 16. You probably wouldn't even get it most games which would be really disapointing.

Maybe a rework for his passive to have 3 stages of augments at 6(400g)/11(600g)/16(800g)

The only reason I wouldn't want this myself is because right now augment death feels a little stronger than it should be when you pick it up early. I'm sure if they did rework his passive, death would get nerfed in the process.

15 days ago by A Wikia contributor

^this

15 days ago by Xyonon

Good to see you joined the Glorious evolution!

7 days ago by Armegdon

Or Riot can make augments a 2nd upgrade on top of the 1st upgrade. An example would be after the initial upgrade of augment of death, Viktor is allowed to pay 1000 more gold to give its augment 40% magic pen.

17 days ago by A Wikia contributor

No, the Augments are fine, Augment death for example gives 99 AP which is more than a lot of items and it's way cheaper not really a wasted item slot

16 days ago by A Wikia contributor

I think that would be a little too strong, honestly. I mean his ulti scaling is so strong already, death augment would make it so powerful. I definitely like the idea though.

Another interesting idea I saw was if the Augment gave an additional stat or effect that unlocked once he hit level 18. It will make the passive scale better lategame and it fits thematically with the "evolving technology".

19 days ago by Rust x Rust

history

Yes sure viktor would have a lich bane for only 1000 gold, why not 30% chance to kill instantly with autoattack.

21 days ago by A Wikia contributor

i agree that my idea is quite crappy, but it looks like u missunderstood it (sry i didnt stated it well), i edited the original post

20 days ago by Zilla4444

history

oh i see what you are saying, since mage items dont add critchance (because neither needs the other) you would hvae an 18% chance to activate the passive essentially. so 18% chance of lichbane essentially. ok I can see that on some things. People would build hybrid in that case though, and would build a couple phantom dancers and/or trinity maybe, along with massive ap items, giving about... a hell of a lot of attack speed, movement speed, a guarenteed (base attack +ad + ap + crit) every half second on top of his abilities, which actually have a good sum of utility in them. Unfortuneatly, people wouldn't interpret the way you did, they'd see it as: oh look guys, I can build ap items in order to gain ad. (they'd build rabadons instead of bloodthirster for the +180 ad instead of the 100 ad essentially) the basics of the idea seem nice, but you have to remember, people look for the best ways to take advantage of things, so if you wish to maintain balance, you need to consider all the worst case scenarios. (i noticed that possibility about halfway through, as you probably noticed by the instant tone shifts in my text) I'm a balance nut btw, so I attempt to see all options.

17 days ago by A Wikia contributor